[00:00:10] Mike: Hey everybody. Good afternoon. Welcome back. It is Mike with insider secrets and Insider Secrets is brought to you by My Core Intentions. Today I am really excited about our guest Seth Williams from Interior Drama. And Seth, would you tell our listeners a couple of things that they’re going to hear on today’s episode?

[00:00:31] Seth: Yeah, so Mike and I, we talk about Home staging, failure and what mistakes to avoid in today’s real estate investing market.

[00:00:40] Mike: It’s awesome. And Seth I know that our listeners today are going to be really happy that they tuned in, listen to the inside of this. And you’re going to have to go inside to listen to the rest. Thanks for being here.

[00:00:52] Seth: All right. Thanks for having me Mike.

[00:00:55] Kristen: Welcome to this week’s edition of Insider Secrets. The show that turns multifamily investing into reality. Each show we interview guests who are seasoned professionals, actively closing and managing real estate deals. Your host Mike Morawski has more than 30 years of multifamily, real estate investing and property management experience.

[00:01:17] Mike is the founder of My Core Intentions. And he’s been involved in over $285 million of transactions. Focuses on helping you create short term cashflow and long-term wealth. Here’s your host, Mike.

[00:01:33] Mike: Hey everybody, welcome back. It’s Mike, your host of Insider Secrets, which means it must be Tuesday afternoon. I hope that you’ve been thinking about your intentions. I always talk at My Core Intentions about what are your intentions?

[00:01:47] What are you thinking about doing? I just had a conversation with somebody where he asked me, how do you start your day? What’s the most important part of your day? And the most important part of my day is the morning. It’s that time that I get up and I get to spend that time and think intentionally about what do I want to accomplish?

[00:02:05] Like today, I got up and I intentionally knew that I was going to do this Podcast today and that we’re going to bring some great content, some great information to you. So I just ask you, what are your intentions? What are you trying to accomplish?

[00:02:18] Hey, I am excited today about my guest. My guest is Seth Williams. Hey Seth, would you say hi to the listeners, please?

[00:02:26] Seth: Hey everybody.

[00:02:28] Mike: Hey, thanks for being here, Seth. I’m really excited about what we’re going to dive into. Hey everybody listen, Seth Williams is the owner of The Interior Drama. A business specializing in home staging and interior decorating for realtors and real estate investors. Prior to purchasing the business in 2020, Seth spent five years in investment banking, working on capital raises and MNA for insurance companies and asset managers.

[00:02:58] He took his knowledge from banking to pursue his dreams of working for himself by becoming an entrepreneur through acquisitions. Hey, Seth, I’m amazed that you come from an MNA background from the financial world and you’re in the home staging business today. I’m really interested to hear this story and how you got there, right?

[00:03:20] That’s just kind of the highlights but one question I always like to ask my listeners before we get started is in one word Seth, what best describes you personally and professionally?

[00:03:31] Seth: Yeah, that’s a great question. I would say adaptable. So I feel as though whatever situation that I come into, I try to be as adaptable as possible. Whether it is a networking event where you’re very uncomfortable and you’re with some big hitters, for example, or if you’re in a situation in which you have no idea what you’re doing.

[00:03:53] I take the mindset that I have to be able to adapt to every situation. Primarily because I live by a motto and I’m not sure who said it. I read it on the internet one day, it’s adapt or die. People that are incapable of adapting to situations, whether it’s in their careers, in their personal lives that they not only become stagnant, but it just results in a higher rate of failure. And if you can go into any situation and be more adaptable, the outcome for success, I believe is higher.

[00:04:26] Mike: Yeah, that’s interesting. I like the way that you say that. And here’s, what’s really interesting. I don’t know, I’m 75 episodes into this podcast since I’ve been doing it. And I don’t know that anybody has ever said the same word twice.

[00:04:40] Somebody always has a different word. And I just love that because I think it goes to show what people are really made of.  And the difference that lies in all of us in our activities and the things that we believe in that help us to be more successful. So listen, just a little out of the box, right?

[00:04:58] You’re a home stager. You’re not an investor, you’re not a realtor. And you’re somebody that brings a great amount of skill to what you do. And passion, because you have to, because you’re a support person for that investor, for that real estate agent. So let’s talk about your backstory a little bit. How did you get into the staging business? How’d you get to where you’re at today in your life?

[00:05:24] Seth: Sure. Like I said, my background is investment banking. I spent about five years in which my specialization was asset managers and insurance brokers. And ever since I was younger, I’d always wanted to go into some type of financial field.

[00:05:44] And I realized I wanted to work on wall street in New York city. And I was gung ho on that and eventually ended up doing that, working in investment banking here in Chicago, as well as in New York. And after spending a few years there, I realized I wanted to work for myself.

[00:06:00] And I knew that if I was going to do investment banking, it likely wasn’t going to be for myself, it was going to be for some of the bigger banks. But what I did was I took that knowledge from investment banking, whether it was an MNA transaction or a capital raise. And I ended up leaving the company, doing some soul searching.

[00:06:20] I went to Brazil for a bit and then realized I should go into purchase a franchise. I spoke with several people about buying a franchise. It got very close to doing that in which it was the same week COVID lockdowns shut down for the first time. So I held back on that specific purchase and then read a book which was called “Entrepreneurship Through Acquisition”.

[00:06:44] And I realized that it might make sense for me to use my skillset from investment banking and purchase an existing business. So in investment banking, a lot of what we did was a leverage buyout. So you source capital from everybody and you purchase an existing business. And most private equity firms do this.

[00:07:04] So what they’ll do is they’ll try and improve the company, maybe double its size and then sell it again in five to seven years. And I realized, I’ve done so many of these transactions on a larger level. Why don’t I just see if I can replicate this on a smaller scale individually. And so I spoke with a bunch of business brokers and looked at plenty of different opportunities, and came across home staging.

[00:07:27] And I’ve always had a passion for real estate. It was a successful business. We’ve been around since 2002. And it’s heavily project management focused, which is what my background is. And the most exciting thing about it is that I’m helping people facilitate these transactions in their personal lives.

[00:07:46] So I’m helping somebody typically sell the largest asset that they probably will ever sell in their lives. So I find a great deal of fulfillment in that and really just enjoy interacting with realtors, investors.

[00:07:59] Mike: So let me ask you a question. Do you really believe, and this might be a loaded question, right? But do you really believe that staging a home for sale, whether somebody lives there or doesn’t live there, makes it more of a saleable asset?

[00:08:17] Seth: Oh, absolutely. There’s tons of studies done that say home staging, what it does is it not only helps you sell your home quicker, but also for more money.

[00:08:27] And what it does is it taps into the psychology of a buyer. And what it does is it depersonalizes the home. Such that it brought into the pool of potential buyers and also just it’s really selling a lifestyle to those buyers. They don’t focus on things that are negative about the home.

[00:08:46] They walk into the space and realize, Oh, this is really a space I could see myself living. And especially those awkward spaces, which if left vacant they would have a tough time understanding how they’re going to situate the room. And they typically tend to walk away from an asset that they can’t see themselves living in, whether it’s situated strangely or if they notice Knicks and knacks on the walls or floors.

[00:09:10] And what staging does is it brought into the pool of potential buyers and taps into their psychology, such that it facilitates the transaction quicker and for more money.

[00:09:20] Mike: That’s interesting. I sold real estate for a number of years and staging was never really a popular thing. People talked about it and Oh, you should do it. Even on the rehabs in the foreclosures that I did way back. And then we started to stage, and once we started staging, boy, it made all the difference in the world. I’m a believer in it, and obviously you are, you actually went out and bought a company, that’s what you do. How does staging help somebody who’s in the multifamily space? What can you do for somebody in the multifamily space?

[00:09:53] Seth: Yeah. So we work with a lot of investors, as well as home builders. And what we will do is come in and stage like a model unit. For example, we work with a couple investors on the South side of Chicago and what they’ll do is they’ll purchase a six flat walk-up, renovate it, and then we’ll come in to stage one specific model unit. Whichever one is, the most awkward or least likely to actually rent. And once that model unit is rented, what we do is we just move that specific staging into another unit. So one by one, we are really helping them then rent out or sell each unit one by one.

[00:10:34] And it really helps out a lot of these investors. Because one thing that we educate investors on more so than realtors, is just the carrying costs involved. Like I said, all the studies with respect to the home selling quicker, as well as for higher dollar, it we tap into the fact that it’s going to sell quicker, they’re going to have less carrying costs especially with a lot of those hard modules.

[00:10:58] Mike: Yeah. That’s interesting to think about. Here’s a question came in the mind, but we’re in a market right now that’s really hot and it’s really moving. People put houses on the market and they’re getting offers that are 10% higher than what they’re listed for.

[00:11:12] It’s a crazy market right now. How would staging a house in this market separate it from somebody else? Houses are selling just because they’re showing up on the market today. 

[00:11:25] Seth: Yeah. So thankfully staging is really a very recession resistant business. So we educate people that in a buyer’s market, what you want to do is stage it so that you can sell your property quicker. Right now what we’re seeing is it’s definitely a sellers market due to the limited inventory. And so you definitely want to stage it such that you’re getting top dollar. And I know that you think everybody is getting top dollar right now. But it makes an incredible difference. The investment that you put into staging and how much that’s going to either maintain the list price, or helped you get a higher ASP price.

[00:12:04] Mike: Who’s your best client? And I don’t even want to say client. I want to say audience, right? I don’t want, I don’t want a specific person, but I just want your avatar, who is your best audience today?

[00:12:17] Seth: Right now it’s developers. You can call them developers or investors, whether they’re building a new six flat walk up, or they are gutting a six flat lockup. And so alluding to what I was talking about previously. Those are the best clients or audience that we serve.

[00:12:33] Mostly because they really understand the economics of home staging. I think that we’re still at a point, especially in the Midwest, on educating realtors about the economics and the benefits of home staging. But a lot of developers and investors already get it and they know that it’s affecting their bottom line.

[00:12:52] So they understand that once they newly rehab a home or build a new six flat walk-up. That it’s going to make an enormous difference with respect to getting that off of their books.

[00:13:05] Mike: Interesting. So how I want to phrase this, is there a social impact in the marketplace in what you’re doing? And if there is, how does that work to benefits on both sides and by both sides, to you as your company and to the stakeholder, right? Cause it’s the stakeholder that benefits. So it’s the neighbors in the neighborhood. It’s the small business guy in the neighborhood. It’s the buyer, right? What are the social benefits in all this to them?

[00:13:36] Seth: Yeah. It’s definitely bringing in a higher clientele or potential buyer for the home. So not only is it bringing in residents that they understand the specific lifestyle that staging is bringing them. So it’s bettering the community with respect to the people moving into it.

[00:13:51] But also we’re a part of the Wicker park, Bucktown, the chamber of commerce. And so participating a lot of those events and just giving back to the community we’re located over on Armitage. And that’s primarily the social impact that we can bring. And one thing is within the staging industry, I’m on the board of the International Association of Home Staging Professionals, their Chicago chapter.

[00:14:18] And so the social impact that we bring is basically just educating them on business acumen, other stagers. And so obviously I come more from the finance and business acumen perspective than a lot of these other home stagers whom have decorating experience or furniture experience. And what it does is we just help them be more successful whether it’s financially or just business operations wise.

[00:14:46] Mike: Yeah. Interesting. The world over the last year has been a crazy place. I think that you can find a lot of people that are under stress, different kinds of stress, and it’s different than it was before. Two years ago, it was business stress related to work and the environment. Now it’s totally different. So as a result of that, how do you find yourself making high stakes decisions?

[00:15:10] Seth: Yeah. I thankfully through some health issues in my early twenties, I started meditating and that’s had an enormous impact on my life. 10 to 20 minutes every morning.

[00:15:22] And I can tell on mornings when I don’t do it, just, throughout the entire day, it’s a little bit different. But that’s one way in which, it just allows me to make better decisions without having an emotional reaction. And primarily it helps with stress more so than anything I’ve really encountered other than a good night’s sleep and a healthy diet.

[00:15:42] But when I do have a high stakes decision coming up, I’ve always journaled. And so I’ll basically just write out a cost benefit analysis in my journal and make sure that I’m not rushed before I go to bed, maybe for 30 to 60 minutes. And really come to formal conclusion about what my next step is going to be and give myself a due date on when I’m going to make that decision. So that really helps just writing things down physically.

[00:16:11] Mike: Yeah. That’s interesting. Do you find that you get more impact after you meditate to write those things down? Or do you just naturally do that journaling and that piece as part of your regular daily disciplines?

[00:16:26] Seth: Yeah, it’s part of my morning routine. Everybody always talks about these morning routines now. And I make my bed, I will meditate for 10 to 20 minutes. Then I read my goals and write down what I’m grateful for. And then if I have a big decision, I know that I need to either make that day or that week. What I’ll do is I’ll sit there for a while on my couch and just write out specifically how I can make the best decision.

[00:16:53] Mike: Yeah. My show is called Insider Secrets, but my company is My Core Intentions. And what I said in the beginning, we have to be [00:17:00] intentional about those things, because those are the things that drive us personally and professionally. And I always say that we don’t grow professionally unless we grow personally. And it sounds like you tapped into that years ago. Which has benefited you over the long haul. So that’s good.

[00:17:17] Do you feel that’s something that I was looking at a coach, and coaching in your life. Phil Jackson was a great coach. Michael Jordan was a great basketball player. But under Doug Collins, you could only do so much. And then Phil Jackson came in and totally changed that up. So do you feel that with employees and people that are involved in your life, that your disciplines rub off on them? And that you make it easier for them to function and operate and trying to give them something that’s bigger about what they do?

[00:17:49] Seth: Yeah, absolutely. I wish I was a little more successful at it. Trying to tell people the benefits of meditation and all these other things. I’m always trying to positively influence other people in my life, whether it’s employees, my personal relationships, family. And I think that a lot of times you can only preach so much and they won’t really respond or do it. But I think when you actually teach them that as you sit down with them and they can see how you go about these specific processes and really the overall benefit that you’re receiving from them, then they might start, it’ll start to rub off on them more so than if you’re just yelling at them, you should do this. So that’s one thing I’ve slowly but surely learned is trying to teach people how to improve situation.

[00:18:42] Mike: Yeah. Yelling never works anyhow.

[00:18:46] Seth: It’s true. Yeah. Took me a while to learn.

[00:18:50] Mike: Hey. So one question I always like to ask my guest and I have a couple of them but one in particular really is around ethics, integrity, [00:19:00] what your thoughts, your feelings are best techniques for acting ethically, how do you process? That whole kind of conversation around that. How do you address that?

[00:19:11] Seth: Yeah, so I did a certification, it’s called the “Chartered Financial Analyst Program”. And it’s three really long tests that are only given once a year. So if you fail, you have to do it next year. And in each of those tests is one sixth of it is ethics.

[00:19:28] So you basically spend an hour each test on just doing ethics. So it really drilled into my mind how important ethics are just in a business standpoint as well as in your personal life. So what I have really just found about acting ethically is that it results in a better outcome, whether you’re in the workplace, trying to ensure that you have employees that are acting ethically. But also going back to what I said, instead of shouting at people to act ethically, you should probably act ethically yourself.

[00:20:03] Just having a set of morals and core values for your company. And one of our core values is integrity. So we always want to make sure that whether it’s with the client or just interacting with each other on a team, that we have a certain amount of integrity and we’re never stabbing each other in the back. It’s a collegial environment. Just try to act as ethically as possible.

[00:20:26] Mike: There’s a saying I heard years ago that’s always stuck with me. It’s something like and you should always behave this way and when you have to use words, it just really goes to say that our behavior and what people see is so much louder than what we say. Because I can tell you all day long that I’m an ethical person, but if you don’t watch me walk that out in my life, you really have no way of knowing. And I think that we find that, I think in general with people is people say something, but it’s not really what they mean, how they walk, right?

[00:21:06] Seth: Yeah.

[00:21:07] Mike: Yeah. Interesting. Hey, this show is called Insider Secrets. Everybody I know, every guest I’ve ever had in the show has a set of secret, whether their fundamentals that they use, whether they’re skilled that they’ve tapped into. What are a couple of secrets that you have that you share?

[00:21:28] Seth: Yeah. One of them that I always tell people is just, I don’t know if it’s necessarily a secret, but just don’t be afraid to fail. A lot of people just go about their lives. I’m not sure who said it, but it’s most men live lives of quiet desperation and people are just afraid to think, or just get outside of their comfort zones and really take risks, whether they’re scared of the financial risks or societal risks and how people are going to view them. Success is not only financial, but it’s also how happy you are with what you’re doing in your life. And if you’re not afraid to fail, and you’re obviously taking calculated risks and making sure that you’re not doing things completely idiotic, then these risks are typically going to work out for you.

[00:22:19] If you fail at a business venture, then they’re going to learn something from it more so than you probably would have at that job where you’re doing data put all day. So it’s a completely different way of looking at things and you want to make sure you take calculated risks.

[00:22:33] Mike: Yeah. Well-spoken, thank you. What advice would you maybe give an investor today coming into the marketplace? Now I know that you’re coming from a different perspective on this, right? So you’re on the outskirts, not really doing the investing, but you’re working with the realtor with the investor. What does that investor need to watch out for today in the market?

[00:22:59] Seth: Yeah, my advice would be to do your due diligence. There aren’t a lot of deals out there right now because of the limited supply of inventory. And it makes a lot more sense to do considerably more due diligence. And I know people are racing to get deals done because there aren’t very many fields.

[00:23:21] But my advice is, if you find a hairy deal and you’re excited about it because you have nothing else going on and you know that the timeframe is very tight. Make sure you still do that thorough due diligence, because things are going to arise after you have made the purchase or the investment that you’re going to basically regret had you not done the specific due diligence you really should have. That is my advice due diligence.

[00:23:50] Mike: No, I think that’s really smart. Deals out there today. And I just did a media post on this yesterday, but deals out there today.

[00:23:57] People are looking at them and because there’s not as many as there usually is. They’re looking at them and from a razor thin perspective, they’re thinking in their own mind, I can make this work. Hey, it’s like getting in a relationship thinking you’re going to change the other person. You’re not, it’s not going to work.

[00:24:19] Seth Yeah.

[00:24:19] Mike: Hey so listen, let’s shift gears a little bit. One of my favorite parts of the show is hearing people’s perspective on things from their hometown. And this is what I like. We’re both in Chicago, but I want to hear what your favorite tourist attraction in Chicago is?

[00:24:39] Seth: Yeah. Tourist traction.

[00:24:43] Mike: Where would you take somebody coming into town?

[00:24:46] Seth: I live South loop. And what we do is we walk along Grand Park. Grand park, in my opinion is the most underutilized park in Chicago. I think the COVID and the pandemic really forced people to get out there because the lakefront was closed.

[00:24:59] But I always take guests to Grand Park, whether it’s the bean, which is technically millennium park. But what I do is the South part of Grand Park and also the Lake just hop on a divvy and take a bike along the Lake path. Because I think that a lot of people miss that when they’re here and it’s beautiful body of water.

[00:25:18] Mike: Yeah. What a concept that Debbie is, huh? Rent those bicycles.

[00:25:23] Seth: Yeah. I have a monthly subscription. It’s a hundred bucks a month. And the amount of money as well as time I have saved. You have to be willing to ride the divvy, there’s risks to that, but economically I’ve saved hundreds of dollars using divvy, so I recommend it.

[00:25:39] Mike: Favorite restaurant? Give me something new.

[00:25:43] Seth: So there is a big on Chicago dogs and all, I think we have some of the best fast food in the world. And there’s a place up on Irving park. And it’s right next to the Sheridan red line. It’s called Byron’s.

[00:25:58] Mike: Okay.

[00:25:58] Seth: Just incredible hot dogs, incredible hamburgers, fries. It’s that greasy Chicago food everybody’s always craving, especially in the summer. And I recommend check it out at Chicago.

[00:26:09] Mike: It’s a long way from the south loop.

[00:26:11] Seth: I’ll hop on a divvy and go up there just for the dog.

[00:26:14] Mike: There you go. All that grease, then you can work it off so.

[00:26:18] Seth: Exactly.

[00:26:19] Mike: Favorite book you ever read?

[00:26:22] Seth: “How to Win Friends and Influence People”. So Dale Carnegie, that’s a book I try to read at least once a year, and I think that’s the number one rule in that book or the first one is don’t criticize, condemn or complain.

[00:26:38] And that’s like one of my number one rules on life and looking to sign up for one of the Dale Carnegie in-person courses this year. So hopefully to get something out of that.

[00:26:47] Mike: We’re in a relationship business, whether you’re an investor, whether you’re a realtor, whether you’re a home stager, it’s a relationship business. And Carnegie does such a great job about teaching you how to do that. I’m actually just listening to that on audio right now so.

[00:27:04] Hey Seth, if somebody wants to get ahold of you, use your service, pick your brain, talk about the investment. How do they do that?

[00:27:13] Seth: So you can find us at idhomestaging.com and that has my email address as well as my personal cell phone, which you can call or text.

[00:27:25] Mike: Social media?

[00:27:27] Seth: Yeah, we are on LinkedIn, Facebook as well as Instagram. So just type in Interior Drama and you should be able to find us everywhere else.

[00:27:37] Mike: Awesome. Hey, I really appreciate you being here today. Thank you. And it has been a pleasure and you’re a wealth of knowledge. No doubt about that. I like your perspective on the industry.

[00:27:50] And everybody, I would just to ask you please follow us on social media, follow Seth also whether it’s Instagram or Facebook, LinkedIn, wherever you are, whatever platform you use.

[00:28:01] Please like us, love us, help our ratings. This will be out on our YouTube channel. So you can find this there and you can find it on Apple and Spotify and everywhere else. And the good news is if you have Alexa today, all you have to do is say, Alexa, play Insider Secrets, and up comes the most current episode.

[00:28:26] So everybody, I’m glad that you’re here. Thanks for supporting us. Seth, thanks for being here. And I will look forward to seeing you soon.

[00:28:33] Seth: All right. Thanks Mike, thanks for having me.

[00:28:35] Kristen: Thank you, Mike, and thank you for joining us for another great episode of Insider Secrets. As always, Insider Secrets is brought to you by My Core Intentions. Join us on social media and visit mycoreintentions.com where you can get expert coaching on all things, multifamily investing in property management.

[00:28:53] We’re looking forward to having you back again next week for more Insider Secrets.